One major question on today’s daf is one that many a parent has today: What does it mean if a man and a woman are “talking”?
MISHNA: If people saw a woman talking to one man, but they did not recognize him . . .
On the remainder of the daf, there is a debate over what the woman was seen doing. What does it mean when the Mishna says they were “talking”? Some read this and think “talking” means she was seen having sex with an unknown man. Others say that she was just talking with him, but there is still that suspicion that they might have done more than just talk. There is no issue of adultery whether or not she had sex with him. However, if the man was forbidden from marrying an Israelite (like a Gibeonite or a mamzer), she would no longer be able to marry into the priesthood. So, they need to know: who is this guy?
. . . and they said to her: What is the nature [tivo] of this man? And she said to them: He is a man called so-and-so and he is a priest; Rabban Gamliel and Rabbi Eliezer say: She is deemed credible, and Rabbi Yehoshua says: It is not based on the statement emerging from her mouth that we conduct our lives. Rather, she assumes the presumptive status of one who engaged in intercourse with a Gibeonite or with a mamzer, men of flawed lineage who disqualify her from marrying a priest, until she brings proof supporting her statement.
So, when she is asked who this guy was she gives his name and says that he is a priest.
Rabban Gamaliel and Rabbi Eliezer rule that she is believed and is still able to marry a priest. They deem her innocent until proven guilty. However, Rabbi Joshua holds that since she was alone with him, she loses her presumption of being fit to marry a priest. He deems her guilt until proven innocent and says she has to provide bring proof that this person was not prohibited from marrying an Israelite and until then she may not marry a priest.
But they were just “talking” right? So, what does it matter?
This had me thinking about the dating terms we use today and how some are new (like “ghosting” and “netflix and chill”) and some are old terms that have new meanings.
When I was a teen, “hooking up” could mean anything from just kissing to oral sex. Today, it means having sex.
The Talmud is trying to figure out what “talking” means. That also is a dating term that has changed. According to “Very Well Family” magazine “talking” is:
Perhaps one of the easiest terms to decipher, talking means the couple is getting to know one another and sometimes even casually dating. Both parties are interested in having a relationship and are trying to determine what they have in common and if it should go any further. It also means that they are not yet in a committed relationship but only testing the waters at this point.
So, from the times of the Mishna until today – we still don’t know if a couple that is “talking” is having sex or not.
